MartinMarty

I have always left my Vive plugged in when not in use and I always leave my computer on. I have found the front of the HMD to always be warm, even when not in use. Seems to me the warmest spot was approximately in front of my left eye. I have had the grey-out problem since around May and HTC recently swapped out my HMD. The new/replacement one just started having the grey-out problem tonight and I have now taped over the same sensor and it is working fine.

wrote: ... Now i dont really want to read through 20pages of posts is there an answer to this problem yet? Hi , no permanent solution or definitive explanation from HTC yet. However, for me and a few others, a very easy and totally effective workaround has been to cover up one of the IR sensors on the HMD. For me it was the one approximately level with and to the right of the camera. When the grey-out is happening full force, move your hands around the front of the HMD to cover the various sensors. Hopefully when you get the correct one, the problem will clear up. Once I identified the sensor, I used post-it sticky and electrical tape to cover the sensor. I know at least two of us had the same sensor as the issue. I ran for weeks that way with no problem. Now HTC has swapped out my HMD so I'm cured again for the moment but I see no reason the problem couldn't happen again until they figure out what the problem actually is and a fix for it. Some people believe it is caused by heat and have applied cooling to the front of the HMD to remedy the problem (cool packs or fans). Good luck.

I was happy my Vive responded to the workaround of taping over a sensor. I ran that way of r a few weeks, I think, and all that happened was I enjoyed VR like I did at the beginning. I would have continued to run that way indefinitely had HTC not asked for my HMD to test. So now they have my grey-out HMD and I have a replacement. It has been working fine but I did't have problems with my original for a few months. I still have to put my base station back to its original location to complete my test.

Yeah but mine worked for several months before it started malfunctioning, so unless a hardware change has been made I would not be surprised if the new one started having problems in a few months.

That's amazing . I have been running with the right front sensor taped over since I posted on July 21 and it has made the unplayable playable again and returned the immersion to my VR experience. The reason I said it's amazing is because I've tried covering the left front sensor and it doesn't work on mine. What do these sensors have in common, I wonder? Are they actually defective or is there something that changed in the software around the time this problem started and covering the sensor avoids the problem? Is the left vs right sensor the one that helps because of where your A vs B vs C lighthouse is mounted? Does the fact that occluding one of the bottom sensors have anything to do with the experience a few of us reported early-on, that looking *down* in the game seemed to set the problem off?

Well, let's just say I would be a little disappointed if HTC mailed each of us a piece of tape... (just kidding, calm down guys). If it continues to work, it is acceptable to me, though I would probably redo with a nicer "bandage". However, the significance to me, IF it continues to work, is that something is wrong with that particular sensor and HTC owes me a fix, or at least the offer of a fix. i.e. if they said "Your sensor is definitely bad. Send in your HMD. You'll receive a replacement in six to eight weeks." I would have to think hard about whether I wanted to be without it for a long time, since it seems to be functioning at 100% with my Frankenstein tape job. I suppose if I knew I would be getting a newer revision that has a superior design in some way. But somebody else's old "refurbished" unit? Not so much. Anyway, that's putting the cart in front of the horse. First, I must determine if my fix continues to work. If my fix does continue to work, then would this approach work for others? Are all of us simply experiencing failures in one or more sensors? Or is there more than one problem? The info I have seen tells me those sensors are IR photodiodes, but I can see from the take-apart video that each one is on a small circuit assembly with a few supporting components. So are those supporting components failing because of the heat, if the diode itself is not? Who knows. All I know is mine was working fine for a few months, then went partially bad and now it looks like it is due to a single sensor/assembly on the HMD.

wrote: Thanks MartinMarty - Just wanted to know if the issue also immediately disappears if you put cold on the Vive. Sorry, AGR, I had not intended to ignore your request. Wednesday night I attended a party in theWaveVR, which is a wonderful experience but mine has been marred by grey-outs diminishing the immersion. Anyway, I had been in there a while, maybe close to an hour, and thought I was doing pretty good when the grey-outs started. This time it really got me at bad moment when I was running the light show for everybody to see. So there I was totally blind and I just kept pulling controls even though I couldn't see if I had ahold of the control, let alone the results. Anyway, in a pinch I started covering up sensors with my hands and it was helping a lot. I got it isolated to the one nearest my right eye, level with the camera. So I grabbed a post-it note and stuck it over that sensor. The results were good but the post-it was not covering the sensor thoroughly, so I cut the sticky parts from two post-its and almost cured the problem. Finally I stuck electrical tape over the post-it material, that way no light can get through and no tape adhesive gets on the sensor lens. Knock-on-wood, the occlusion solution seems to be working great for me. I have not had a single episode of grey-outs since I covered the sensor. I am leaving it on all the time and I will see how long the success continues. If and when it fails, I will try the cool-down solution but I don't want to mess with success since this is the most I've been able to enjoy my Vive in a couple months. I am posting a picture. I know it's not pretty but cut me a break - the repair was made during gameplay. :smileyvery-happy: I had dabbled with this before with mixed results, but I never actually isolated a single sensor and I never taped over it/them good. Now I just hope that this fix keeps working, as some others have not.

... Could you guys do me a favor and test it, too? I reported a similar discovery recently.

I have covered sensors before to come out of a grey-out. I don't know which ones. I just move my hands around on the front of the HMD from one side to the other. It is like throwing darts in the dark. Might work. Might not. I've had some pretty good play sessions lately. I don't know if the problem is getting better or if I am learning to compensate, like when your car has something wrong with it but you discover if you work the gas pedal this way and hit the brakes this other way and shift gears this special way, you can still drive to work without stalling out. Then somebody else gets in your car and says "How can you drive this thing?" :robotwink:

I thought I would bring this up just in case. I posted this is Steam forum as well. I don't think this has to do with our grey-out problem because I was already having our problem before this started, I THINK. I THINK this started for me when the new Steam Home page started. This does not seem to hurt me in any way but sometimes is on my screen when I exit VR, either with or without having had a grey-out.

Internal HMD heat? I had to pull the HDMI cable from the HMD to see the serial number. It was noticeably warm. Is this normal, given that the HMD had not been used for about 20 hours? I commented before on the face plate being warm in front of my left eye after a long period of idle. What's making so much heat doing nothing in there?

HMD Serial and date of purchase: Purchased 12/27/16 from Newegg, S/N FA68DJJ00221, mfg 2016/11 Grey Screen: does it flicker or stay solid grey? I am not sure what the question is. Sometimes it flashes a few times on the way to solid grey, the effect is almost like there is a short in something. Sometimes it flashes a few times and never makes it to solid grey, i.e. either by moving my head around, moving away from chaperone bounds, turning whole body, covering HMD sensor(s), or doing some combination of all the voodoo moves we have discussed out here, the permanent grey-out is avoided. When problem began (more or less): Everything was good from January to May. The first time I noticed the problem was playing a couple titles from my new Vive subscription when it first came out. Your location: USA, Ohio OS Version: Win 10 Pro, 64-bit, v1607 OS Build 14393.1358 Computer Make/Model or Motherboard if homebuilt: Mobo is Asrock Z77 Mod Extreme 4, Intel i7-3770K @ 3.5GHz, not overclocked, Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD with Windows and VR, 2TB WD Black SATA HDD for misc storage. RAM: 16GB Networking or other cards plugged in to motherboard: Onboard ethernet port, no wifi. Graphics Card: Zotac GTX 1080 ti, Nvidia driver 22.21.13.8476 General Computing Environment and Set up: 1 HDMI monitor, USB 2.0 hub on mobo port 2.0 port, Vive is on Inateck Superspeed 4 Ports PCI-E to USB 3.0 card, USB devices not on Inateck (mouse, 2 printers, 2 GPS, 1 webcam/mic), keyboard is PS/2 with Hotrod Joystick on keyboard wedge, 1 dongle for Steam controller also on Inateck). All computers and networking and VR are on UPS power except printers and Base Station on book shelf. Steam Version: beta but was not on beta until trying to solve this problem. VR Home Beta enabled/disabled: enabled Viveport installed/not installed: state which version if installed by going to Settings v1.0.8889 r1060 Oculus or revive or other VR environment installed: None. No VR dev installed. MS Visual Studio 2012 installed. Photo of the room your vive is in: Here is a short video on dropbox. You may need to boost the brightness on your player.

wrote: Use your android phone(if you have one) and take a photo of your lighthouse. Check if you have 17 lights. http://imgur.com/a/TCk0I Thank you for the suggestion. I have done so recently and one of the Vive guys checked it out for me. All was good as far as that goes.

Do you guys leave your computer powered on all the time? I do. I measured the front of my HMD at 35.4ºC before starting SteamVR.

didn't say that. He said "not reliably". And I have to admit sometimes mine works. Being able to recreate the problem is a crucial step to fixing it. I appreciate the honest reply. I think the only thing we can do is to supply information when they need it. I don't know where HTC's offices are located, but I guarantee if any of their people wanted to visit my "lab" to see a real life demonstration of the problem, pack up your meters and your GPS and head my way and I will roll out the red non-reflective carpet. I'm sure our other problem customers would do the same. For the record, I'm in US, Ohio. I am going to continue to post good days and bad days out here. If Vive guys want to read it, that's fine. If they don't, at least it gives us something to do while we can't play in VR. Maybe amongst ourselves we can stumble across a common denominator. For example, my air conditioning has been broken for a few days so I had been leaving my computer off, where normally I leave it on 24x7. Last night it was somewhat cool outside, around 60ºF and I had all the windows open, so this morning it felt cool enough to play around for 15 or 20 minutes in theWaveVR, a few songs in Audioshield, and once through the bow & arrow game in theLab. I only had one blip of grey but I think I was legitimately out of view of the base stations. If got me wondering though. I normally leave my PC on 24x7, like I said. How about the rest of you? Also, the other morning I noticed my HMD was warm to the touch just sitting there, not having been played for at leasy 24 hours. It was approx. 35.4ºC "at rest" in the warm spot approx. in front of the left eye.

wrote: Hi As previously posted in this thread, we are aware of this issue and are pursuing a solution. Once we have more information for you, we will respond. Thank you for your patience, -John C , Just tell me one thing and I think it might make some of us feel a lot better, me anyway. Are your tech people able to recreate the problem? THANKS for your support and dialogue. -Marty

, I don't think they take us lightly. I was in commercial software development for many years and also got to do some programming for new hardware. If I had 50 / 800,000 having the same new problem and didn't have a clue what was causing it, I would be praying that 50 didn't become 1000, then 10,000, etc. because at that point you simply don't know. It is as likely to increase as to disappear the same way it appeared. In fact, it can bemuch worse when a problem goes away without an explanation because it could come back any time. - I love the way you think! I'm not holding my breath though. I'd be happy just to get a fix, let alone the "pain and suffering" compensation! Ha Ha. I have an ASUS mobo, but I don't use the USB ports on the board, I bought one of the recommended cards because I had such a hard time initially getting Vive to work. Windows 7 was a bear. A bear that killed me. I ended up going to Win 10 where Vive installed great, just some of my other stuff had some hiccups. Oh yeah, I also took advantage of the summer sale to demonstrate my confidence in the platform.

, I agree with everything you just said. However, still, I wonder how many of us are trouble-free. The reason it is on my mind is because I have participated in several social interactions in VR recently, including an amazing show at theWaveVR. In none of these were the people talking abot problems or upset because they would have to make a temporary exit to rest/reset their HMD/software/computer. That just got me thinking whether we were part of a small minority. So it's not so much the attitudes I'm wondering about as the actual numbers. And I too, definitely do not regret the purchase because I think we are into a new revolutionary technology and the ride is not to be without a few bumps. Hope they get it sorted soon, though, because I'm jonesing for some quality immersion.

I have definitely had the problem looking down, but I can't say that's most of it. The ones that really yank my crank are the ones where I am not looking down, where I've got a base station four or five feet away well within its 120º field of view. I will say that the first time it happened I was definitely looking down because I remember in Firebird story there is a place where they have you chasing this "dog" creature trying to grab a magic blinky thing and it was during that that I had my first grey-out. I wonder how rare we are. Generally, people come to support forums with some kind of a problem so it is not unusual to find high percentages of participants to be somewhat dipleased over one thing or another and to get the idea that "this is broken for everyone so why haven't they already fixed it and why are they ignoring the probem?" But I wonder if there are hundreds of happy Vive users out there enjoying untainted immersion for every one of us who is having this issue.

Well, dawg gone it, my party's over. I was successful last night attending theWaveVR party and got a couple good, immersive hours in without grey-screen interruption and left of my choosing rather than being forced out by a grey-out. Coupling that with the previous 24 hours of relative success, which I was attributing to the SteamVR client beta code, this morning I decided to put my base station back to its original location where it worked well almost 5 months. It didn't immediately mess up but it did. Unfortunately, more than one variable was changed. It also heated up today, reulting in the AC kicking in and me being a bit hotter headed than the past couple days. There was also a SteamVR client update installed today. Maybe it negated whatever change I was attributing to the beta code, or maybe I was incorrect. I had never paid any attention to the HMD temperature prior to today, though I've seen you all posting about it. Is it supposed to be warm to the touch? Mine is. According to my infra-red laser-guided digital thermometer (that sounds funny but it's true) my HMD has a lot of areas over 35ºC. I had about 37.8º right about where my left eye would be, alot of territory around 35º-36º, mainly to the left, the the outskirts of the HMD were more like 27ºC and most of the right side in the 33º - 34º range. Sometimes it seemed like individual sensors were warmer. I was trying to cover them up when things greyed out. Sometimes it worked, other times not, or maybe I just wasn't messing with the right ones. In any case, my grey-outs are definitely back. Oh yeah, my video is a Zotac implementation of a Nvidea GTX 1080.

, do you want all the grey screen posts over there, too, or is this something different (like dead base stations)?

wrote: Moving forward, the following info will help us greatly: 1) The manufacture date of your Vive. This can be found by sliding off the 3-in-1 cable compartment cover. 2) The rough date that you started expericing problems 3) Any environmental factors you feel may be influencing the problem 4) Any workarounds you find that alieveates the issue, even if it's impractical 5) Threads from any other online communities that you find that describe similar issues 1) Mfg date = 11/2016 2) Bought end of Dec. Started playing in January. Problems started right about time as my Vive subscription, bought 4/30, started using about 5/10 probably. This is when problems started on two of my first subscription titles, Firebird - La Peri and Everest. 3) I have a couple of semi-shiny floor mats on the carpet but they did not bother anything at first, also I have covered them with sheets and it did not help. I have seen significant improvement by using the beta SteamVR code. HOWEVER, if these people are right about the temperature theory, it could still apply to me because the outdoor temperature has dropped drastically the last couple of days, from about 89 or 90ºF to (right now) 62.7º F. So now I haven't been using the air conditioning in the house. Maybe when I resume AC, the problem will resume. 4) Though I thought my initial base station placement was nearly perfect by the book, because it was only about 1 foot under max range of 5m, I tried relocating base stations which did not help. Also tried using sync cable which did not help. 5) The only other thread I know of is the one in here titled "Overheating".

I installed the beta SteamVR last night and did at least an hour in VR and only had one flash of grey and I was legitimately on the chaperone bounds when that happened. I went in again today in the main app that was p_ssing me off (theWaveVR) and did not have any problems. There is a show tonight I am really looking forward to in about an hour, so I'll let you know how that goes. I did notice one other negative side effect to the beta code, which also detracts from the immersion but not nearly to the extent of the grey-outs, so I am much happier right now with this than a couple days ago. The side effect has to do with the field of view (maybe) mapping of the universe (maybe) field of view (maybe). I'm thinking maybe the Steam code fixes something that causes a slight visual aberration in the game. I'm planning to report it in theWaveVR discussion threads. I have not tried theLab defending the castle game, which was another place I experienced annoying grey-outs but I will try it ASAP and report back. I am cautiously optimistic about the Steam code fix. Thanks, all, for now. Talk to you after theWave show.

wrote: ... Additionally I had some wobbling issues today that triggered motion sickness for me. The first day everything was rocksolid, tracking worked flawlessly and I had no grey spots or directions. I have also noticed some minor wobbling, for example at the start of "Inception", but I attributed it to having moved my base station from a sturdy wall to a computer rack and then to a book shelf. I had no wobbling at the beginning before the gray-outs started.

That is in the ballpark of what I was talking about. Please let me know if there is a remedy to try. Thanks.