I've been offered a refund for my Cosmos...

[CrakeJ]

I really wish HTC didn't treat us like this.

Paypal have just informed me I can have a full refund for my Cosmos. While there are things I like about it, they are not enough for me to hang on and spend the price of another HMD upgrading the equipment which was faulty anyway.

HTC have offered to fix my noisy not working fan, but I don't think it's enough.

One thing I do know, if I take the refund, I will NOT purchase another HTC HMD. There are now many MUCH cheaper alternatives available which WORK.

I already offered to pay for an upgrade kit (rather than another £500+ for bits) for around £200, but HTC just don't seem to be interested in looking after us - and WE pay their wages. They ruined their phone business, and now well on way to destroying their VR business. I feel sorry for the HTC staff who have at least tried to help us.

I found some information about the hardware the Cosmos uses and it should be ample for the job, but again, newer, cheaper HMDs are available with much more powerful chipsets.

I'm guessing no one would talk me out of this decision? It's sad that because of the way HTC just ignores these problems I now feel like I shouldn't pay another penny to 'upgrade' to something that works.

[davide445]

Out of curiosity, what are these headset? 

I'm supposed to know all the major and minor brands for my work, and didn't remember any cheaper more "powerful" one in the same category...so curios to know if I miss something. 

Powerful you mean in term of resolution or frequency rate? 

[lam0218]

21 hours ago, davide445 said:

Out of curiosity, what are these headset? 

I'm supposed to know all the major and minor brands for my work, and didn't remember any cheaper more "powerful" one in the same category...so curios to know if I miss something. 

Powerful you mean in term of resolution or frequency rate? 

The Oculus rift s and the quest 2, all working much much much better in tracking and also come with a much better controller. The one come with Cosmos is bulky and not a good design....

You really need to try the tracking in rift s, it is very perfect. And the new quest 2 should be on par or better. And the one in Cosmos is a disaster,  it is because of its faulty design that could never be able to fix it. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by lam0218

[davide445]

34 minutes ago, lam0218 said:

The Oculus rift s and the quest 2, all working much much much better in tracking and also come with a much better controller. The one come with Cosmos is bulky and not a good design....

You really need to try the tracking in rift s, it is very perfect. And the new quest 2 should be on par or better. And the one in Cosmos is a disaster,  it is because of its faulty design that could never be able to fix it. 

Ah ok something I know. Yes Oculus tracking is supposed to be better even if I'm satisfied of the Cosmos for my non-gaming needs, but the Rif S has less resolution and the Quest is an autonomous headset by design so really not comparable and so far with lower refresh rate, even if with the Link the thing start to blur. To be honest as corporate user I stay away from Facebook and his data hungry policy. Good to know what was you referring to, thanks. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by davide445

[CrakeJ]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:23 PM, davide445 said:

Ah ok something I know. Yes Oculus tracking is supposed to be better even if I'm satisfied of the Cosmos for my non-gaming needs, but the Rif S has less resolution and the Quest is an autonomous headset by design so really not comparable and so far with lower refresh rate, even if with the Link the thing start to blur. To be honest as corporate user I stay away from Facebook and his data hungry policy. Good to know what was you referring to, thanks. 

The Quest 2 and G2 both use the new X2 chipset. Both are cheaper yet perform better. The main problems with the Cosmos are tracking accuracy and tracking prediction. I think both are 90Hz refresh or more, and G2 is higher resolution.

Check out this article - https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-cosmos-accuracy-test-controller/

I also have a problem with my fan, but tho HTC offered to fix it they refuse to fix the Cosmos

[davide445]

20 hours ago, CrakeJ said:

The Quest 2 and G2 both use the new X2 chipset. Both are cheaper yet perform better. The main problems with the Cosmos are tracking accuracy and tracking prediction. I think both are 90Hz refresh or more, and G2 is higher resolution.

Check out this article - https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-cosmos-accuracy-test-controller/

I also have a problem with my fan, but tho HTC offered to fix it they refuse to fix the Cosmos

Quest 2 has a lower refresh rate so far, will see in the future when will reach 90hz. For corporate applications such as I'm interested about has as primarily target hardware this mobile chipset, something not all realtime engine focused on industrial applications are supporting (they need powerful hardware you can find only in a real PC). Also does have in my view the "Facebook little problem" about data.

HP Reverb G2 is a Windows Mixed Reality solution with a compatibility layer with SteamVR applications. I didn't find nowhere someone disclosing how well this is working. I read a test with the previous Reverb also telling the square 1:1 format of the displays create problems in that settings. Ive seen it used primarily in sitten VR such as car or flight simulators. 

Cosmos tracking has been anyway improving doing these months. 

So in my view there is no one for all perfect solution, depends what you need and how well you know about the hardware and software limitations you are going to use. 

[lam0218]

Quest 2 has better resolution than the faulty Cosmos standard model. Also, the focus len is always out of focus in my Cosmos. In my previous VR headset - rift s, everything just work.

Would like to see how well Quest 2 connect to PC in Half Alyx using the link cable.

Facebook has discontinued Rift s and now focus on Quest 2. 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by lam0218

[CrakeJ]

5 hours ago, davide445 said:

Quest 2 has a lower refresh rate so far, will see in the future when will reach 90hz. For corporate applications such as I'm interested about has as primarily target hardware this mobile chipset, something not all realtime engine focused on industrial applications are supporting (they need powerful hardware you can find only in a real PC). Also does have in my view the "Facebook little problem" about data.

HP Reverb G2 is a Windows Mixed Reality solution with a compatibility layer with SteamVR applications. I didn't find nowhere someone disclosing how well this is working. I read a test with the previous Reverb also telling the square 1:1 format of the displays create problems in that settings. Ive seen it used primarily in sitten VR such as car or flight simulators. 

Cosmos tracking has been anyway improving doing these months. 

So in my view there is no one for all perfect solution, depends what you need and how well you know about the hardware and software limitations you are going to use. 

I won't be buying anything from F Book. I just used these HMDs as examples - more are coming very soon. The G2 has better screens than it's predecessor, and it's part designed by Valve.

I'm glad it works for you. For us mixed usage users though we need fast, accurate tracking.

SteveKnows (just about to watch live q&a Re: Quest 2) is just one YouTube channel you'll find Quest 2 reviews (not sure he did the G2 yet). There are others which have review of the G2 as well.

[CrakeJ]

So, after trying quite hard to engage with HTC support about the tracking problem, they've done their usual and just ignored me, so sadly returning my HMD for full refund. I wont be doing this quietly! I just cannot recommend ANYONE buys the over-priced Cosmos headset that doesn't work well. It might be OK for some beginners, or people that don't need accuracy or speed (?), but doesn't look like they're ever going to do anything about these problems.

You 'win' @Htc - but I predict that unless you change things radically - especially prices - people won't even know who this company was....

I tried engaging with @Vive_Care on Twitter and got this (by now, rather boring and repetitive) conversation:

 

Quote

 

Me:

Hi, My name is John. The Cosmos doesn't work, the tracking just isn't up to the job. I don't get errors, I just can't play the games I want to play properly. Tracking spoils the overall enjoyment.

 

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-cosmos-accuracy-test-controller/

It's very depressing reading things like this

Yesterday, 12:56 PM

Although things have improved, it's so frustrating that HTC does nothing for the users of the Cosmos. Anna in support has tried escalating my complaint, but it's just downgraded again

She's been very helpful, as has C.T. in the forum team

How and when will HTC fix this faulty tracking?

Yesterday, 12:59 PM

jhxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com

Yesterday, 1:39 PM

You did say to DM you......

Yesterday, 9:18 PM

 

Vive_Care: (after prompting them to reply)

Hello John. Thank you for reaching out regarding the issues you're having with the Cosmos Tracking. I sincerely apologize that you're having this difficulty. Because the Cosmos uses inside out tracking, the Cosmos is a bit different from any of the other VR headsets. The main difference is because rather than using the external base stations (which require to be set up in an actual 'play area') which a lot of users don't have the space for, the Cosmos uses the Cameras as it's 'eyes'. This means that the Cosmos has to be able to 'see' what it's doing and where it is. The lighting in your area of use with the Cosmos has to be well lit. You want to cover any sources of UV light (Windows / specialty lamps / etc.), for good measure, we also recommend that you cover reflective surfaces in the play area. Can you tell me more about your play area and a bit about how you use your Vive? If you keep having issues, there is a 'report issue' option in the Vive software. Please use that form to submit your feedback. That form goes directly to the engineering team and they use your feedback to influence what kind of updates to produce in the future.

 

Me:

I'm already in contact with C.T. from the forum team. I've run betas and provided feedback as instructed. The updates required are ones that make the tracking at least as good as other HMDs. The article above shows how badly cosmos performs compared to others that use less cameras. Controller positional prediction is poor and playing something fast like beatsaber is hard as the tracking is lost so regularly. There is much discussion of this problem on the internet including your own forums. YouTube channels pretty much ignore the existence of the Cosmos completely, having given up on it's poor implementation of inside out tracking. The problem of tracking loss when aiming a weapon isn't good either. The cosmos can't even work out which controller is in front of the other - something other, cheaper HMDs seem not to have a problem with. The main problem is that the cameras you've used lose focus when the controllers are close to them. Also, not being IR means that lighting is often more of a problem than it should be. The Cosmos is faulty - you know it and I know it. I've suggested many things to HTC (Anna in support) - use an extra cam attached to the pc or an upgrade kit for existing Cosmos owners the DOESN'T cost nearly as much as the Cosmos in the first place. I've been having 'issues' since I got this in April. No amount of updates is going to fix this as far as I (and others) can see. I had to put pieces of white card around my room tonight before it would even work! The lighting was good at the time. I feel enormously let down by HTC and Vive.

 

12:11 AM

No comment on that then?

4:42 AM

Well, back my HMD goes then. It won't go quietly I'm afraid.

10:02 AM

 

 

 

[davide445]

On 10/11/2020 at 6:57 PM, CrakeJ said:

I won't be buying anything from F Book. I just used these HMDs as examples - more are coming very soon. The G2 has better screens than it's predecessor, and it's part designed by Valve.

I'm glad it works for you. For us mixed usage users though we need fast, accurate tracking.

This is not what I have written, so didn't know why happens to be in my quotation. Someone else later deleted his post?